At the beginning of the Odyssey, Telemachus seems young and powerless. He is completely passive in the face of the suitors abuses and they treat him like a pushover. As he embarks on a journey and the epic wears on, how and why does the character of Telemachus change?
Telemachus growing up. Hmm... Well here’s the thing; In books II through IV, Telemachus hardly changes at all. I mean, he meets lots of cool people and learns a lot about his dad, but he hardly matures. The real change comes in Book I, during his meeting with Athena/Mentes. Athena’s comments about what Odysseus would do to the suitors and how similar Telemachus is to his father really hit home for the kid. Especially powerful is her comment about, “what glory Prince Orestes won throughout the world/when he killed that cunning murderous Aegisthus/who’d killed his famous father” (Book I, 343-5). This statement is a direct comparison to the situation Telemachus faces himself. These comments get him thinking about what he can do and what he should do to prove his “manliness”. This change is pretty evident, even right after their discussion. Telemachus, who allowed the suitors to stay in his home for years without any open complaints, suddenly announces to them that, “You must leave my palace! See to your feasting elsewhere/devour your own possessions, house to house by turns” (Book I, 430-1). Even the suitors are alarmed by the sudden maturity and strength exhibited by the prince in his declarations. As the book says, “And they all bit their lips/amazed the prince could speak with so much daring” (Book I, 438-9). While he may grow in small amounts later in the story, this scene is the true site of Telemachus’s growth in the Telemachiad. This one conversation with Athena inspires him to go out into the world to find out his father’s destiny, spread his own name in the world, and win back the home which he has been missing for so long.
In my opinion, I think that Telemachus did do plenty of growing up but not only in book I but also in books II through IV. Telemachus, in Book II shows power towards the suitors like Antinous, for example,” now, yes, that the anger seethes inside me…/ I’ll stop at nothing to hurl destruction at your heads/ ”(Book2:350-52) I feel that this section in Book II shows his increased maturity when he starts to show more than just growing up but executing the fact that he seems to have more power and strength than the other men or suitors. Telemachus does change, even though it may not be much, when he learns more about his father through out his journey that helps him grow up too. Telemachus learns to talk with sense and power instead of shying away and being a pushover. I do agree with your comment Russell that Telemachus does most of his growing up in Book I and leaving on his trip/journey is evidence that he did increase in maturity. If Athena did not speak to he probably would not have had the idea to kick the suitors out from his home and have strength to go find out about his father rather than staying at home and letting the suitors consume his wealth.
I agree with Russell. Telemachus really doesn’t seem to change much at all during the journey. The only thing that causes any change in Telemachus at all is Athena telling him to toughen up and be a man. I find this to be very interesting, so I will focus on this part of the story. She tells him how much Ithaca needs Odysseus and what Odysseus would do to the suitors if he were here. (page, Book One, lines 294-7) “Oh how much you need Odysseus, gone so long – how he’d lay hands on all these brazen suitors! IF only he would appear now”. While comparing the young Telemachus to his great, powerful father, Odysseus may not be a fair comparison, it certainly got Athena’s message across. I actually believe that Athena, the goddess of wisdom, is taking a calculated risk here. She is trying to motivate Telemachus, to make him angry and convince him to take this newfound anger out on a target, the suitors. Earlier in this conversation, it seems as if this strategy isn’t working. She asks Telemachus if he is truly Odysseus’s son. However, instead of bristling with anger and saying “Of course I’m Odysseus’s son, watch me and I’ll do exactly what he would do in this situation”, Telemachus responds with uncertainty. He says, “My mother always told me I’m his son, it’s true, but I am not so certain.” (Lines 249-250)However, Athena’s strategy does work out for her. She gets Telemachus to consent to her saying “like father like son. I won’t forget a word.” The very next day, Telemachus calls a meeting of the island, something that hadn’t happened since Oddysseus left, then goes off on his journey to find his father and bring him home. I believe that, in addition to bring his father home, the other purpose of Telemachus doing these to actions was to prove his braver y and worthiness to Athena and to himself.
Rus. Well done. I agree with your position completely partially. Telemachus does show his maturing state primarily in the first book. However, he also obviously shows himself willing to go through thick and thin in search of his father in the later books (2-4). His willingness to risk his life for his father show that he has already matured a great deal, because he had already spent a large amount of years sitting around at home while suitors played with his toys (including his mom). He stands up to them (which you previously stated) showing braveness that he obviously did not have in years before. But the same with his search for information about dad, he did not seem to have the courage to do that before book one, but he finally showed his new lack of immaturity when he left his mother in book two. From there on to book four there are plenty of examples of his maturing state of mind. One that I found significant is in book three when Athena is encouraging Telemachus to confront Nestor to question him about his father. “Telemachus, no more shyness, this is not the time! We sailed the seas for this, for news of your father…” (108). Here, Telemachus proves himself no longer shy, and is most defenately helped by the bright eyed goddess. He goes on to speak with Nestor, then, even after going through the trouble to do that, still goes on to speak with Menelaus. So what can we conclude from this, is that Russel can be corrected by Sam. Maybe. What is your take on this Rus?
Telemachus growing up. Hmm... Well here’s the thing; In books II through IV, Telemachus hardly changes at all. I mean, he meets lots of cool people and learns a lot about his dad, but he hardly matures. The real change comes in Book I, during his meeting with Athena/Mentes. Athena’s comments about what Odysseus would do to the suitors and how similar Telemachus is to his father really hit home for the kid. Especially powerful is her comment about, “what glory Prince Orestes won throughout the world/when he killed that cunning murderous Aegisthus/who’d killed his famous father” (Book I, 343-5). This statement is a direct comparison to the situation Telemachus faces himself. These comments get him thinking about what he can do and what he should do to prove his “manliness”.
ReplyDeleteThis change is pretty evident, even right after their discussion. Telemachus, who allowed the suitors to stay in his home for years without any open complaints, suddenly announces to them that, “You must leave my palace! See to your feasting elsewhere/devour your own possessions, house to house by turns” (Book I, 430-1). Even the suitors are alarmed by the sudden maturity and strength exhibited by the prince in his declarations. As the book says, “And they all bit their lips/amazed the prince could speak with so much daring” (Book I, 438-9). While he may grow in small amounts later in the story, this scene is the true site of Telemachus’s growth in the Telemachiad. This one conversation with Athena inspires him to go out into the world to find out his father’s destiny, spread his own name in the world, and win back the home which he has been missing for so long.
In my opinion, I think that Telemachus did do plenty of growing up but not only in book I but also in books II through IV. Telemachus, in Book II shows power towards the suitors like Antinous, for example,” now, yes, that the anger seethes inside me…/ I’ll stop at nothing to hurl destruction at your heads/ ”(Book2:350-52) I feel that this section in Book II shows his increased maturity when he starts to show more than just growing up but executing the fact that he seems to have more power and strength than the other men or suitors. Telemachus does change, even though it may not be much, when he learns more about his father through out his journey that helps him grow up too. Telemachus learns to talk with sense and power instead of shying away and being a pushover.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with your comment Russell that Telemachus does most of his growing up in Book I and leaving on his trip/journey is evidence that he did increase in maturity. If Athena did not speak to he probably would not have had the idea to kick the suitors out from his home and have strength to go find out about his father rather than staying at home and letting the suitors consume his wealth.
I agree with Russell. Telemachus really doesn’t seem to change much at all during the journey. The only thing that causes any change in Telemachus at all is Athena telling him to toughen up and be a man. I find this to be very interesting, so I will focus on this part of the story. She tells him how much Ithaca needs Odysseus and what Odysseus would do to the suitors if he were here. (page, Book One, lines 294-7) “Oh how much you need Odysseus, gone so long – how he’d lay hands on all these brazen suitors! IF only he would appear now”. While comparing the young Telemachus to his great, powerful father, Odysseus may not be a fair comparison, it certainly got Athena’s message across. I actually believe that Athena, the goddess of wisdom, is taking a calculated risk here. She is trying to motivate Telemachus, to make him angry and convince him to take this newfound anger out on a target, the suitors. Earlier in this conversation, it seems as if this strategy isn’t working. She asks Telemachus if he is truly Odysseus’s son. However, instead of bristling with anger and saying “Of course I’m Odysseus’s son, watch me and I’ll do exactly what he would do in this situation”, Telemachus responds with uncertainty. He says, “My mother always told me I’m his son, it’s true, but I am not so certain.” (Lines 249-250)However, Athena’s strategy does work out for her. She gets Telemachus to consent to her saying “like father like son. I won’t forget a word.” The very next day, Telemachus calls a meeting of the island, something that hadn’t happened since Oddysseus left, then goes off on his journey to find his father and bring him home. I believe that, in addition to bring his father home, the other purpose of Telemachus doing these to actions was to prove his braver y and worthiness to Athena and to himself.
ReplyDeleteRus. Well done. I agree with your position completely partially. Telemachus does show his maturing state primarily in the first book. However, he also obviously shows himself willing to go through thick and thin in search of his father in the later books (2-4). His willingness to risk his life for his father show that he has already matured a great deal, because he had already spent a large amount of years sitting around at home while suitors played with his toys (including his mom). He stands up to them (which you previously stated) showing braveness that he obviously did not have in years before. But the same with his search for information about dad, he did not seem to have the courage to do that before book one, but he finally showed his new lack of immaturity when he left his mother in book two. From there on to book four there are plenty of examples of his maturing state of mind. One that I found significant is in book three when Athena is encouraging Telemachus to confront Nestor to question him about his father. “Telemachus, no more shyness, this is not the time! We sailed the seas for this, for news of your father…” (108). Here, Telemachus proves himself no longer shy, and is most defenately helped by the bright eyed goddess. He goes on to speak with Nestor, then, even after going through the trouble to do that, still goes on to speak with Menelaus. So what can we conclude from this, is that Russel can be corrected by Sam. Maybe. What is your take on this Rus?
ReplyDelete