Wednesday, February 3, 2010
Fathers and Sons
In the first four books of the Odyssey, Telemachus journeys to Pylos and Sparta in search of news of his father, Odysseus. Along the way he meets Nestor and his son Pisisastros, Menelaus and one of his sons and hears the story of Agamemnon and his son Orestes. Why do we have all these fathers and sons? Is there an implicit comparison to Telemachus and his situation? How does this relate to what is happening in Ithaca? Is there any connection to Odysseus's rejection of immortality in the next book? What is the significance of the the father-son relationship in the epic?
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There is most certainly a comparison between the combination of Odysseus and Telemachus and these other father-son duos. Telemachus knew things were going badly in Ithaca even before Athena came to visit him. Then Athena comes and tells him just how bad things are, tells him what his father would be doing in this situation, then tells him to man-up and be like dad. This, of course, is part of the reason why Telemachus goes off on his journey to find news of and/or bring back Odysseus: to show that he’s tough enough and brave enough to do what his father might have done. So then on this journey, Telemachus comes into contact with some other fathers and sons. First came Nestor and Pisasstratus. When Telemachus arrives at their home of Pylos, they are sacrificing to the gods, ironically, specifically to Poseidon who is the main god that is preventing Odysseus from returning home. Nestor welcomes Telmachus to join him, and Telemachus learns of Nestor’s story of how he returned home from Troy and about how well things are going for him and the rest of Pylos since his return. These events at Pylos show what should have been going on at Ithaca. Life is going on as normal, and they are sacrificing to the gods and everything is going well. However, Ithaca is just the opposite of this. Next, Telemachus travels to Sparta to meet with Menelaus, and much the same events happen. Telemachus arrives in the middle of a wedding feast, once again showing life as usual and demonstrating that Sparta was a thriving city, more than capable of supporting a lavish double-wedding. The ideas of well-being are confirmed when Telemachus talks with Menelaus, who, though he didn’t return from Troy quite as easily as Nestor, had been thriving even more, with his rich collection of treasures. In, addition to the comparison to the two cities as a whole, there is also a comparison to the relationships between the kings and their children. Nestor and Pisisastros seem to get along great, and Oisisastros even accompanies Telemachus on his way to Sparta. Menelaus too seems to have great relationships with his children, as he is throwing them a lavish wedding feast. In conclusion, I believe that it was absolutely no accident that Telemachus meets the people and sees the places that he does along his voyage and that everything he sees is meant to be compared toIthaca, Odysseus, and himself.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I agree with Mark that it was no incident that Telemachus came across these three men and their sons. I think that being introduced to these pairs and their lives was one of the reasons for which the Telemachia was put at the beginning of the Odyssey, because it explains why Telemachus is not a particularily good leader. When Telemachus is searching for his father at sea, he stops at Pylos and Sparta. There is where he meets all of the father and son pairs. When Telemachus is with these pairs he gets a glimpse of the father-son relationship he has missed out on because his father has been gone at war. Also, Telemachus sees how much Ithaca should be prospering; yet in reality it is declining quickly. Looking at the father-son relationships and the statuses of the three kingdoms emphasizes the fact that Telemachus is broken and lost because of the absence of his father. Telemachus’s difficulties explain why Ithica has been in a downward fall. Visiting these pairs makes Telemachus want to find his father even more. Not only is Telemachus in search for a father-son relationship, Odysseus yerns for this relationship too. There is evidence that Odysseus wants to have a relationship with his son when he chooses to continue on his journey home rather than becoming immortal and living with Calypso. Odysseus stays loyal to his wife, son and kingdom when he rejects immortality. It is Odysseus’s responsibility to guide his son, and help him to be able to make decisions as the future king. Odysseus does not give up a relationship with his son and in turn fail his family, and his kingdom. In conclusion the father-son relationship plays a major role in this story, and that is why the three father-son relationships are portrayed in the Telemachia.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I agree with both Mark and Anna on their descriptions of the father-son relationships depicted in the early books of the Odyssey. However there was one point that Anna made that I do not particularly agree with. She said that Telemachus was not a good leader. While also do not believe that he was an outstanding leader, I believe the reason for this was not in his character or talent as a leader, but the fact that he was raised without the father figure responsible for educating him on how to be the leader of a successful and thriving city-state.
ReplyDeleteTelemachus spent almost all of his childhood and adolescence without a father figure. During this time he was just a child, far to young to take on the task of running the city. Once he had reached a proper age the situation in Ithica was completely out of hand. With Athena’s probing, he did his best to address the situation of the suitors who had begun to take over his home, but truthfully it did very little to help the situation. I believe that with the proper mentoring from a father figure during Telemachus’ childhood he could have either avoided the situation entirely or put a stop to it like he believed his father could have.
Telemachus’ situation is different than those faced by the other father son duos mentioned in the Telemachiad, one case in particular is that of Agamemnon and his son Orestes. While Orestes spent much of his young life without his father at home, just as Telemachus did, he only had to face one true suitor, Aegisthus, who became Orestes’ mother lover while his father was away. Just before Agamemnon’s return home from war Clytemnestra and Aegisthus planned and executed Agamemnon’s murder. Orestes immediately assumed the role of a man in the Greek society. He sought out his mother and Aegisthus, killing both of them as revenge for his father. In this situation it was clear what was expected of Orestes and how he was to defend the honor of his father. It was not something that needed to be learned or taught. Telemachus however did not know how to handle the situation that was consuming Ithica. In conclusion, I believe that the relationship between the father and the son is necessary in matters of ruling the city-state it is less essential in matters of the cultural expectations for a man.
I have the same opinion as both of you except for one detail in Anna McCuaig’s response. I think that Odysseus did not reject immortality and living with Calypso on the account of his son. I think Odysseus only wanted to go back to see his homeland and his wife, not as much Telemachus. Odysseus leaves his son when he was just a small infant and it does not seem like in the book there is much mentioned about the father -son relationship in the first few books. Also they spend more time apart then they are together, which can also add to the barely existent relationship of the two. Telemachus also does not even get to know or meet his father until he is almost a man and vice-versa with Odysseus.
ReplyDeleteOther than that, I also agree with your (Mark & Anna) other points about how meeting the other father-son pairs show the effects on Telemachus for growing up without a father figure in his life but I think it is more of a matter of ruling rather than being a “man” in a sense.
Grace’s point about the relationship between father-son helps the matters of ruling the city-state more than it does becoming a man. From all of the other father-son relationships you learn how wealthy and well off the other city-states are when the kingdom has wisdom from the father-figure and the son can learn for that. While in Telemachus’s case, he had no father figure as mentioned earlier which leads to the devouring of Ithaca’s wealth because Telemachus does not have the father figure to teach him the ways. In this way, I also agree with Grace.
First off I want to say that I agree with Mark, Anna and Grace in their understandings of the father son relationships in the Odyssey and more specifically in the Telemachiad. I like the way that Grace says that the father son relationships are more based on showing to Telemachus examples of the ideal situation which is being a ruler of a city-state. I have noticed throughout most of the father son relationships. For example in the Telemachiad after Orestes avenges his father and kills his mother and her lover and later becomes king of Mycenae. From this example I can determine that possibly his motivation for killing his own mother and her lover was not only to avenge his father, but also to gain access to the throne. The man in a Greek society is portrayed in the odyssey as a king in many cases. Many times in the book the great men are often leaders or kings, which leads me to believe that being a king or leader is highly valued in manhood. Throughout the father son relationships it seems as if many of them are related to being a king or a leader. Another example of this is the relationship between King Nestor and his son Pisisastros, which is one between a king and the prince. I think this is an example for Telemachus of an ideal situation, in which he would succeed his father Odysseus in the throne and become a man. In conclusion I see the role of the father-son relationships in the epic are to show Telemachus what he should grow up to be, and also what he must do to become a man in the Greek society.
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